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This topic contains 16 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by JoanOfArc JoanOfArc 9 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #186
    Jules
    Jules
    Participant

    Do you think an all party Brexit committee would’ve been better? Possibly an even greater degree of disagreement, but a wider view.

  • #202
    Jules
    Jules
    Participant

    Brexit explained verywell by Jonathan Pie.

  • #218
    Jules
    Jules
    Participant

    I am a remainer who doesn’t want another referendum.

    All those who do want everyone else to change their mind but not themselves.

    They argue that the leave vote was based on lies. So was remain. As are all elections.

    They argue that more people didn’t vote. They don’t vote in elections either. We live in a democracy where voting isn’t compulsory,it’s their right not to.

    There’s no difference between this and other elections. If we get the result they want they would accept it, if we don’t they call for another vote.

  • #227
    Jules
    Jules
    Participant

     

    Brexit. Before I go further, I voted remain and haven’t changed my mind. Not because I have a high regard for the EU. I don’t, but felt we should fight from within and have deep concerns about leaving.

    Anyway, so here we are 4 weeks before the date. Jeremy Corbyn suddenly decides to announce he’s behind a second referendum. He’s been dilly dallying around for months. Probably because he disagrees, but won’t come clean, be honest and admit what everyone knows, that he personally believes we should leave the EU. MPs have left his party (ok they have alterior motives as well). That needn’t have happened had he announced this sooner. A bit late in the day.

    Although, I completely disagree with a second ref, regardless of my choice. Those who are advocating this are not those who have seen the light of their original choice. It’s those who haven’t and want others to change theirs. According to Caroline Lucas this is democratic. She’s twisting the truth to suit her views. (Same can be said for Bob Geldof). How so? According to those advocating this the leave campaign was based on lies. Yes, it was. So was the remain, equally. So are all elections. Lots of people didn’t vote. They don’t in elections either. We live in a democracy with no consequences of not voting. And? In 2011 I voted against a watered down version of PR. I’ve changed my mind. That ship has sailed, I voted as I felt at the time, with the knowledge I had, which I now believe to be wrong. I’m not shouting for a second referendum. To have another one over Brexit will cause chaos and possible riots if the vote went the other way. Anyway, we don’t even know what it would be about. No one is being brave enough to suggest anything.

    I don’t want a no deal because I don’t trust the Tories. I needed Jeremy Corbyn in there negotiating to get that off the table, instead he threw his toys out of the pram and refused to get round the table at all, when we had very little time to mess around playing stupid political games. Was it because he really wants a no deal himself? Has to make you wonder.

  • #255
    Jules
    Jules
    Participant

    What a farce Brexit is.

  • #273
    Jackie
    Jackie
    Participant
    Newton Abbot

    Devon

    Agree a Peoples Vote isn’t good, what if leave won again? Best of 3? It would solve nothing and cause even more chaos.

    Jeremy Corbyn voted remain, he’s trying to prevent No Deal and following Labour policy which was agreed at Labour conference, push for election and  back PV only as a last resort. If Labour were in government there would be a vote on the deal before it was passed. He walked from the talks with May as she wasn’t prepared to negotiate anything other than getting her **** deal through.

    • #274
      Jackie
      Jackie
      Participant
      Newton Abbot

      Devon

      Oops I got censored

      • #276
        JoanOfArc
        JoanOfArc
        Participant
        London

        Jackie, all swear words get blanked out, you could put s-h-i-t

        there are ways around it

        oops i gone and done it now hahaha

  • #277
    JoanOfArc
    JoanOfArc
    Participant
    London

    Brexit gives me a major headache.  Actually I have a headache already today, so thinking of such things makes it worse haha.

    I voted remain as well.  However, i see some benefits.

    I dont’ even know who my MEP is, and i’ll take a bet and say that probs most people don’t either.

    Which just goes to prove how far removed EU is from the people.

    I don’t like the concept of the EU, i think we should have decisions made closer to home which would then hopefully be influenced by UK people as a result.

    It’s just a shame that pulling out is such an upheaval with so many unknowns and uncertainties.  Strikes me there is real FEAR around Brexit.  I dunno, there may be some pluses. Who knows. I don’t.

    Ouch my head.

    • #301
      Jackie
      Jackie
      Participant
      Newton Abbot

      Devon

      I didn’t know who mine were either until I read this and looked it up.

      It seems government have blamed a lot of their unpopular policies on the EU, and the media have made it worse. I’m ok with leaving under a Labour government but this lot fill me with fear. They’re eroding our rights.

      EU also fund a lot of useful resources which we would lose, along with everything else that’s been cut.

      Having said that, I would only support a Peoples Vote on the final deal, nothing else. I too am sick of Brexit, it’s distracting people from the other very real issues we have and bringing out the very worst in a lot of people. To me the only good thing about it is that it seems to be bringing the downfall of the Tories with it.

      • #302
        rebel_reddevil
        rebel_reddevil
        Participant
        WARRINGTON

        Hi Jackie, good post.

        Yes the Tories have blamed the EU for a lot. However their policies are all their own, several of which are actually against EU directives.

        I’m in two minds about a second referendum now too, although I do think people are probably better informed now.

        I voted remain but I’m not a great fan of the EU. Its undemocratic (the EU Commission come up with the laws, the EU parliament simply vote on them). However, the UK is no beacon of democracy either. We have an unelected head of state appointed on the basis of primogeniture. We have an unelected upper tier of government (the House of Lords) and our MP’s are elected on the undemocratic first past the post principle – so the EU is actually more democratic than the UK.

        The EU’s laws protect corporate interests and prevent nationalisation (although tbh this can be, and has been, ignored).

        The EU crushed the nascent Greek socialist government with appalling loan terms.

        But as far as the UK is concerned, national interest is best served maintaining the links with our biggest trading partner.

        So yes, I’m a reluctant remainer

  • #281
    Jules
    Jules
    Participant

    It’s not that black and white. I listen to leave arguments and remain arguments. Each are so intrenched in their beliefs they can’t see the pitfall of their own argument. When you pick it apart there are problems if we leave and other problems if we remain. Since writing the above I think I would vote leave now.

  • #282
    rebel_reddevil
    rebel_reddevil
    Participant
    WARRINGTON

    You have several MEP’s Joan.

    My MEP’s are:

    Theresa Griffin (“moderate” Labour)

    Paul Nuttall (UKIP nutjob famous for making ridiculous and provably false claims about his past)

    Jacqueline Foster (Tory – never heard of here till I googled this!)

    Wajid Khan (Labour – probably “moderate”)

    Louise Bours (Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy Group – again never heard of this person or organisation until googled. However its the group in which UKIP sits in the European parliament so she’s probably someone who’s resigned or been kicked out of UKIP)

    Julie Ward (Labour – nice woman, good ideas, leftish. Spoken to her a few times and she’s even attended Momentum events I’ve organised)

    Sajid Karim (Tory) and some independent called Stephen Woolf who looks a bit like one of the very many leaders of UKIP (they tended to go through about 3 a month at one point)

    That’s 8 – although I only remember voting for 4 so I suspect northwest England was further subdivided for the vote.

     

  • #319
    JoanOfArc
    JoanOfArc
    Participant
    London

    Well one thing is for sure folks. If this Brexit thing goes ahead, we may well have a battle on our hands.

    Surely then, it’ll be a time to unite, WHATEVER you voted.

    We can have sole focus on UK government.

    That’s the one thing about Brexit I hope for. Unison. A United UK on the things that matter the most.  Cos let’s face it, we’re getting dragged through the mire whatever way you look at it.

    So many of us see the pros and cons of BOTH brexit AND remain, it’s like well forget our differences and let’s look after UK.

    Perhaps part of the reason Brexit got voted in first place is because people are unhappy with the way this country has been going…… it’s like how can it be worse?

    I hate that the EU is holding us to ransom. I’d rather be independent of it.  I’d rather we could go it alone.  Cos let’s face it, EU doesn’t mean friends.  EU is nothing but a business transaction, isn’t it?

    Maybe Brexit is for those that stand nothing to lose.

    Tory or Labour.  Left or right.  EU or Brexit.  There’s always gonna be casualties.

    We have to make the most of whatever comes.

    Maybe things needed shaking up.

    Or perhaps it’s the worst thing that could happen to this country.

    We all will have to adapt to whatever the outcome is.

  • #333
    SallyD
    SallyD
    Participant

    I don’t understand why anyone believes the EU (of which we are a member) ‘holds us to ransom.’  In what way?  ‘Our own’ government does that daily, as it is our own government that is in control of what happens in our daily lives.  Recently, I believe the EU parliament has been looking out for us.  I have become something of  a fan-girl of a number of the spokespeople from the EU parliament (Donald <3 Tusk in particular) as they seem to want to save us from those in Westminster who are not trying hard enough to avoid us all going to oblivion.

    • #363
      JoanOfArc
      JoanOfArc
      Participant
      London

      just seems to be all about money Sal.

      yeh perhaps i used term ‘held to ransom’ a bit too loosely without giving it much thought.

      howeever if our government is holding us to ransom on a daily basis whilst we’re in the EU, perhaps EU never helped that much.

      Anyhow my fear of leaving is that we’ll import and export even further afield than we are now, which will adversely impact on climate change and the environment.

      A bonus though, might be that UK will take a lot of stuff in house instead of buying from overseas.

      hmmmmm maybe it’ll be a mixture of both.

  • #350
    Jackie
    Jackie
    Participant
    Newton Abbot

    Devon

    Found this on Twitter, it’s absolutely chilling and not in a good way. They see us as units of profit on a production line.

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